Below is an audio clip from Sunday Evening's (9-3-06) service at Bellevue, where Dr Gaines shared his thoughts on blogging with those present. Make of this what you will. All I can say is that there are some very, very respectable people in this world who blog.
Click the play button below for clip of Dr Gaines' specific comments on bloggers and blogging
****BUTTON REMOVED FOR CONCERN OVER COPYRIGHT INFRINGMENT SHUTDOWN SIMILAR TO GARDENDALE VIDEO***
***TRANSCRIPT***
Full Sermon: Click here. Blogging comments are 48 minutes in.
Click the play button below for clip of Dr Gaines' specific comments on bloggers and blogging
****BUTTON REMOVED FOR CONCERN OVER COPYRIGHT INFRINGMENT SHUTDOWN SIMILAR TO GARDENDALE VIDEO***
***TRANSCRIPT***
"Dr Rogers used to tell me, he said, ‘Steve, you know that some people don’t like me.’ I said, ‘Some people don’t like Dr
Full Sermon: Click here. Blogging comments are 48 minutes in.
35 comments:
Josh,
Could you provide when and where this was recorded? I would really be interested!
From a fellow 'kook' - I think that was the word he used. :)
Wayne
Yep, thank you for reminding me Wayne. I meant to link to the Bellevue media site. I'll have the link up in just a sec.
Thanks again,
Josh
Unfortunately, Dr. Gaines has taken Dr. Rogers' quote out of context. I have heard Dr. Rogers say this many times in his sermons. He is talking about people not liking him for preaching the Gospel. I have no problem with Dr. Gaines' preaching of the Gospel. I believe he is dead on in that regard. It is his recent actions, outside of the pulpit, that I have a problem with.
That brings me to another thought that I have read so many times here. Do we believe Dr. Gaines is God's man for our church? Let me leave you with this. I whole heartedly believe that my husband is God's man for me and our family. But what if he does something that puts our family in jeopardy? Am I just supposed to stand by and say, "Well, I trust you. I know that what you are doing is wrong and it could potentially hurt our family. I believe you are God's man for our family, so just go ahead. We will follow." Or, as his wife and help mate, am I supposed to say, "I love you. But I feel that what you are doing is wrong. Because God has appointed you over our family, please re-evaluation your decisions. You are not leading us in the right direction."
I love Dr. Gaines, as our Pastor and as a brother in Christ, and I believe he is God's man for the job. I was so excited to hear that he was going to come be our Pastor. That said, I feel as though his actions are hurting our church family. I pray that he will re-evaluate his actions and decisions. I pray that he will make things right and lead our church family in the RIGHT direction.
Josh, just a note. Sunday's date was 9/3/06, not 9/4/06. Just an FYI.
To me this shows that this blog is working. He seems scared that people are finding out the truth.
Being a coward? I think that everyone knows who the blog master is and he has provided his name. Also Mr. Sharpe has even his name. Dr. Gaines in the coward for not being a man and admitting what he did and that he is trying to cover it up. Why wouldn’t he allow some deacons to hold a meeting at BBC? If Dr. Gaines is so worried about what people are saying on the blog, why doesn’t he hold and Town Meeting like thing where the members of the church can ask him questions open and in front of everyone? Or is he too much of a coward himself.
To Dr. Gaines:
Anytime you want to know who I am and want to have a meeting with me, just let me know. You and your clan don’t scare me. That is the thing, you don’t know who I am. I could be anybody. I could have a lot of firsthand knowledge about you myself. I could here hate in you voice in that clip and that is not good. What is wrong with blogging? Is it the fact that people can speak there mind and you have not control of them here? Is it that the truth is coming out? You are welcome to come here and comment on any thread. I am sure that Josh would give you equal time and if you were willing to be interview too. If you think someone has wronged you, you must confront them (that is what that Bible says). I will continue to pray for you and may God bless you.
The problem that many of us have with a blog is that there is no control over who uses it or reads it. This blog and the website have taken our church family's problems to the public eye. I wholeheartedly believe that is out of line!! The lady who said she would confront her husband if he put their family in jeopardy is right, but I would dare say that if she confronted him, it would not be in a public forum for the entire world to see! Whether right or wrong, the website and this blog are exposing our church to the mockery of the world. That is wrong, and the devil is getting all the glory for it! I love Bellevue, but I am ashamed of this behavior. Couldn't we learn from the example of GBC!!!
Before the members of Bellevue can forgive anyone, the person must confess first. (This is all of us not just staff or pastors.)
I have already "uploaded" forgiveness. I am waiting to be asked. We are a loving, good church family. We have all made mistakes. No one is perfect. I want to forgive...please give me the opportunity to prove it.
Before the members of Bellevue can forgive anyone, the person must confess first. (This is all of us not just staff or pastors.)
I have already "uploaded" forgiveness. I am waiting to be asked. We are a loving, good church family. We have all made mistakes. No one is perfect. I want to forgive...please give me the opportunity to prove it.
Interesting - and timely - article on leadership and trust on the Christianity Today web site:
http://www.christianitytoday.com/leaders/newsletter/2006/cln60814.html
Good read.
Josh,
What you are doing is a wonderful thing. It gives us an outlet to speak our feelings, and to know that we are not alone. However, I encourage you as the administrator to keep the main thing, the main thing. Do Dr. Gaines thoughts on blogging really pertain to the issues at hand? Just a thought.
Josh,
What you are doing is an absolutly reprehenable. I have reviewed and re-reviewed the passage in Matthew regarding going to a brother who has sinned against you, did not find anywhere in the passage that says take it to a public forum for all to see. By the way were you the one that was sinned against? You may want to re-think your actions here.
Is it out of context to say that this blog is exposing our problems to the world? I agree we have problems, but I do not agree that this is the proper venue. I realize things have been tried to address the administration, but I do not believe that you give up doing the right thing. Matt 18 speaks of taking an offense before the church, not the world! It is never right to do the wrong thing for the right reason!
I hope Dr. Gaines regrets the statement he made about "rather be flogged than blogged." How could he even make light of the torture that Jesus endured for "our" sins.
I'm sorry... there is no comparison. I think caution should be used when comparing ourselves to Jesus and the suffering he endured.
To anonyomous 5:49pm,
I agree wholeheartedly. Another questionable comparison that Steve used (when he first came to Bellevue) was a comparison to Judas.
He said, "Let me be like Judas. what I must do let me do quickly."
TOTALLY UNCALLED FOR!!
Some of you may say that he said it in a joking way because he was running late in his sermon. Judas and what Judas did was and is NO joking matter.
Did God inspire Steve to say that? I think not!!
Wake up church and listen to what he is saying!
I will try to find the sermon title so that you can get access to it.
"I tell you if Jesus today was here today (sic) he wouldn’t get flogged maybe but he would get blogged."
How could any minister of the gospel make light of what the Lord Jesus did?
He (Jesus) was bruised for our transgressions and by His stripes we are healed. He came to suffer, bleed and die for our sins. Steve Gaines is making light of our Savior's atoning work. It's irreverence, at it's best, blasphemy, at it's worst. I'm not a coward, but I fear the LORD.
Anonymous A
Laura, someone called a friend of mine wanting to know if you had the title or date of the sermon wherein Dr Gaines made the comments about children not being born in sin. (I think that was the quote from you, please forgive me if I've mangled it.) You could just post it to the appropriate comments page if you know.
Best,
Josh
To Anonymous,
Well I know I'm not full of (****) [I'd rather not use your choice of word] because not only do I KNOW that this happened - but so does one who personally witnessed it. I realize you may be frustrated by what you read - but you are simply uniformed and blinded to the TRUTH. I sincerely desire your prayers - but before you pray I suggest you pray with a Godly spirit and not in an ill spirit!
Josh has consistently commented many times that we simply want TRUTH - and nothing else. What we are receiving from the adminstration is anything else but the TRUTH!
You asked: "What would Dr. Rogers say to you about this?" I can tell you, with great assurance, that we would not have to have said anything at all - he would have never let it get to this point. Dr. Gaines' would have been reprimanded and rebuked! And I assure you of this FACT! Plus, he would have asked you to watch your choice of words.
You also asked: "Are any of you glorifying God by this?" I can again say without a doubt - YES! Those who seek the truth will never be disappointed! BUT, those who hide from or re-invent the truth will never prevail! It may seem as if they are not seeing any effects of their poor decisions - but God's timing is not ours!
So, if I were you, I would not put what could or could not happen in a rational thinking mind-set - for when Satan is involved, and make no mistake - he is, circumstances will take on an irrational series of events or even foolish behavior.
Again, I covet your prayers!
Wayne
Josh,
I mentioned the name of the sermon on Sept.3. The tile is :
"Blessedness of a Cleansed Heart".
Also in response to the GBC member who wrote in saying that GBC had not had 400 members join, I ask for their forgiveness. This was told to me by someone very prominent from the staff. The members may not have joined yet but are visiting. If you would like to edit that out, I understand.
i was wondering if it was just my ears or this really happened. i could not rewind the sermon to hear but i thought i heard Dr. Gaines ask for an Amen and then i heard no one give him one. i wonder if the people were scared that they might get a visit from some of Dr. Gaines' men?
How many members of Bellevue think the pastor of BBC should receive a bigger salary than the president of the United States?
To anonymous who has questioned the trespassing incident. A deacon asked about this in a deacons' meeting and it was admitted and made light of. All you need to do if you doubt is to find a deacon that was in the meeting. It is a FACT, not some "rumor".
As for the Pastor's salary, that's another matter. I imagine this falls under some of the financial accountability concerns that are floating around. We all have our idea of what would be "too much", so it's hard to say where to draw the line. As for me, if you're talking $200k+/yr, then I question the wisdom and justification of such an amount.
To Anonymous, 6:16am, the President of the US does not make enought for the responsibility he has. The pastor of a church the size of Bellevue should be paid well.
To anonymous 12:47 pm:
Yes, by all means a Pastor is to be paid well - but over $200,000 - He doesn't even preach on Wednesday's! This is simply excusing the exuberance this administration has shown! No one wants a Pastor or Minister of Music not to be able to provide for his family - but receiving over $20,000 monthly - who are we kidding here!?!? Just my thought.
Wayne
My heart goes out to all of the pastors of smaller churches out there who serve faithfully in the nooks and crannies of the world. They preach on Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night. They baptize, perform funerals, visit the sick at all hours of the day and night, and counsel the membership and nonmembership in town who have nowhere else to go but to the church. They usually participate in the visitation as well. It's not unusual for them to be the janitor and landscaper.
According to a recent report released by the SBC, the average salary package that includes housing, health, etc was right at 47,000. I beleive this was on the Baptist Daily News sight. I dare say in the megachurch today where the senior pastor is able to delegate a lot of work to others and not have to preach on Wednesday nights, these men don't have it as tough as some of these men I speak about in the smaller churches.
Praise the Lord for the average SBC pastor across America. I know the scripture says a pastor should not be one who is a lover of money. The danger of a pastor who is exposed to such a temptation of money can cause him to stumble.
Although my next thought is not found in scripture, I have never thought that a pastor should make more than twice what the average household income of the church is. (In fact, to put the pastor on par with the average member is probably better.) To do so puts him on a different level of the folks he is shepharding. This is just my opinion.
For Shelby County, I'd say the average household income at Bellevue would be somewhere around $50,000 to 55,000. That would be about 15% higher than overal Shelby County. If you used my theory, $100,000 to $110,000 would be appropriate.
Some men can handle money better than others.
To anonymous, 12:47pm, I googled the president's salary. It is
$400,000.00. (Not including use of Air Force One, all expenses, etc.) Being paid well is a far cry from being over paid. Does anyone have a clue what the search committee agreed to pay Dr.
Gaines? Just curious since I support the church. Does he ever preach on Wednesday night?
Wayne, there is a lot more to it than just standing in the pulpit preaching.
To anonymous 9:54
Yes, you are correct - "there is a lot more to it than just standing in the pulpit preaching." However, that is one the MAIN priorities of a Pastor.
Bellevue has numerous ministers who oversee administrative, financial & other spiritual needs of the flock - hospital visits, for example. This is all to allow the Pastor to be able to focus on preaching and teaching the Word of God to the people he has been called to serve. But, if a Pastor is not focused on preaching the Word - then he will NOT be an effective Pastor! Again, churches do not need a CEO Pastor, they need Godly men teaching God's Word!
Wayne
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